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An idependant scotland

Array

doug_90

Posted 27 February 2006 - 07:24 PM

We had a major 'discussion'(..ok slagging match). But anyway we talked about whether scotland should be idependant and the pro's and cons associated with this change.

btw if i offened you at lunch time then tuf sh~t, get over it i voiced my opinion(loudly as ever). But there is such a thing as freedom of speech!!!!!

TempName123

Posted 27 February 2006 - 07:56 PM

Scottish parliment is a joke, lot of the bills are just a farsh. Take EMA for example, kids just use it here for booze and drugs up here. Had no intents of leaving school anyway and now they get 30 odd quid a week for doing so.

dehny

Posted 27 February 2006 - 10:10 PM

i cant see myself sticking around Scotland for the long term if it doesnt

finish Uni the go back to Europe

kyle

Posted 27 February 2006 - 10:11 PM

No. We'd slowly collapse like a flan in a cupboard.

It just wouldn't work.

Dave

Posted 27 February 2006 - 10:18 PM

i 100% agree with Kyle. This is not to say there is anything wrong with the scottish parliament. For most people the EMA is just a booze up salary but that isnt to say no-one needs it.

I also like the look of the new parliament building:P

Scott

Posted 27 February 2006 - 10:22 PM

QUOTE(kyle @ Feb 27 2006, 10:11 PM)
No. We'd slowly collapse like a flan in a cupboard.

It just wouldn't work.

View Post



It's true, our economy would actually collapse in an instant if we became an independent nation. Devolution works well for us.

dehny

Posted 27 February 2006 - 10:39 PM

id rather see it try than continue to play whipping boy to Westminster

Westminster has no respect for Scottish culture or traditions

Scott

Posted 27 February 2006 - 11:00 PM

QUOTE(dehny @ Feb 27 2006, 10:39 PM)
id rather see it try than continue to play whipping boy to Westminster

Westminster has no respect for Scottish culture or traditions

View Post



Well, depending on the world oil price an independent Scotland has a small chance of working, but if there is a disastrous collapse in the world oil price then we will be hit with the sort of recession that no country wants to suffer from. I for one would rather continue with the system that works fine for us than have to suffer a deep recession.

I'm as patriotic as the next guy but sticking to devolution is the best thing we can do currently. Westminster has no respect for us? Why do you think we use devolution!? We're entitled to make our own laws, if Westminster had no laws we wouldn't use devolution. One sample case would be that I'd probably be about £1500 in debt at the moment with University top up fees after only 7 months of university. We have respect, we're not really their whipping boy, when was the last time Westminster stuck their nose in our business?

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Richard_05

Posted 28 February 2006 - 12:00 AM

Well, we're already abused. After all, westminister decided to host the g8 summit last year in Scotland, and asked us to pay for it after.

Scott

Posted 28 February 2006 - 12:35 AM

QUOTE(Richard_05 @ Feb 28 2006, 12:00 AM)
Well, we're already abused. After all, westminister decided to host the g8 summit last year in Scotland, and asked us to pay for it after.

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Yes, but the burden of paying for the G8 is insignificant compared to the burden on the taxpayers if we went independent and the world oil price collapsed. Simply put we would struggle to make any money on exported oil from "North Sea Oil". The country would go into recession. Per Capita Income would dramatically decrease and many more people would live below the poverty line. Unemployment would spike to an all time high.

My economics lecturer told my class this last term and many more agree with him including the major newspapers and magazines published by economic notaries.

Independence for Scotland is a major risk. We have our pride, why gain slightly more with such an unecessary risk? What would be possibly gain from such an unprecedented risk? The power to govern ourselves? Well that requires constitution writing. We're not worried about Jack McConnell and abuse of executive power but it's the man or woman 50 places into the future as "President" or "Prime Minister" of Scotland. We would also not be a member of the EU if we became independent. Back to the economics of it:

Our exports are currently in decline. As a part of the United Kingdom we don't have much to worry about, as an independent nation, it's a worry. If you check through my posts my main concern is the world oil price. Without energy alternatives 60 years from now the world isn't going to be doing too well. Oil plays a major part in all our lives everyday. The majority of nations rely on extremely volatile and unstable regions like the Middle East for the vast majority of their oil imports. We're lucky enough to have North Sea Oil, but simply put, it's drying up (as I said when I told you that exports are in decline) so our main export as the nation of Scotland will eventually dry up. Which means: Taxes will rise in an attempt to make up for the money we lose from not having oil to export. As a nation of 5 million people our tax will be huge as it will be split among 5m people to make up for oil losses. As part of the United Kingdom, it's divided up among 60m people. 12 times less tax to pay on oil. I know what I'd rather have.

Or we could ask the World Bank to bail us out a few times...all of a sudden Live 8 Scotland would become a reality wink.gif

And the award for most boring post of the year goes to... tongue.gif

mystic

Posted 28 February 2006 - 12:16 PM

the english parliment isn't any better, but i think scotland shold have it own parliment. i think scotland has lost its indenty in the last few hundred years or so, and its a shame. some one asked me the other day what part of engaland was scotland in, ok he was thick but i think so show the laske of indenty we have!? not sure if it would work but surely we should give it a go!
gizmo
x

dondon

Posted 28 February 2006 - 02:34 PM

I see your point about identity, but whats the point on identity when your in economic decline? or when you have less and less people?

And then theres also the demographic issue, we already have an ageing population and a lot of money thats used to pay for older people comes from westminster and taxpayers in England and Wales. Scotland is trying to attract immigrants at the moment but this won't be very easy if its harder to migrate because we'd be seperate from the EU. We'd also loose subsidies etc. from being in the EU so overall we'd loose out.

So basically I'm very much against it, I do believe however that the Scottish Parliament should be given more power especially in areas like migration laws.

(I'd write more but Scott's already made all my points dry.gif )

djh1878

Posted 28 February 2006 - 05:17 PM

Why do I recognise this thread? rolleyes.gif

Anyways, yes. It would mean that we get away from the bland parliament down south, and actually make full use of the Scottish Parliament, in which there are MSP's of most political persuasions. Any decisions made would be more suited to our country, which as a whole tends to be a lot more left-thinking than England, It would result in a helluva lot more national pride as well! smile.gif

doug_90

Posted 28 February 2006 - 08:06 PM

where do you regognise this thread from? have i restarted one which used tobe already here? ph34r.gif

djh1878

Posted 28 February 2006 - 10:30 PM

QUOTE(doug_90 @ Feb 28 2006, 08:06 PM)
where do you regognise this thread from? have i restarted one which used tobe already here? ph34r.gif

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Yeh, I did it a while back. tongue.gif

mystic

Posted 02 March 2006 - 03:50 PM

lol, ok what about in a idealic world, would you then want to be indepentant? escapin the english parliment and making yourself may not be physically posserable but in idealic world then what?
gizmo
x

John

Posted 02 March 2006 - 09:00 PM

Firstly, gizmo it's a UK parlaiment not an English Parlaiment

and now my two little pennies

I think an independant Scotland is possible, but in our life times, that probability is near enough to zero that you could probably easily comprehend.

In my humble(maybe not so humble) opinion, if Scotland attracted more immigrants to Scotland, maybe via the education system(just an example). Creating a larger workforce in the future. And by having a larger workforce, business' will be more attracted to set up camp in Scotland. All of this creating more taxable income to well tax. Thus giving the Economy a long term boost and increasing the Goverments ability to increase Goverment spending too.

Another way the Goverment could increase public spending is by encouraging business' and entrepreneurs and such to invest in public services and institutions, not like PFI/PPP though, a direct invest with no strings attached.


Long shots they may be, but that's how i think somehow, unrealistic ambitions lol





In short i think it's possible, just it will take years, decades, possibly even a century or two.

Edited by Sodium_Ho, 02 March 2006 - 09:02 PM.


mystic

Posted 03 March 2006 - 08:24 PM

i don't think you read that properly because acturally i think the english parliment kinda runs the rest.
gizmo
x


Dave

Posted 03 March 2006 - 10:23 PM

hmm i dont know if what you say would work john. Certainly PPP is a very bad idea as we will be paying council tax forever to pay rent on public buildings its just wrong

I dont think there is a need to increase the workforce as i believe there is a lot of unemployment (i guess you mean professionals and stuff but still)

ermd

Posted 04 March 2006 - 10:35 AM

QUOTE(Dave @ Mar 3 2006, 10:23 PM)
Certainly PPP is a very bad idea as we will be paying council tax forever to pay rent on public buildings its just wrong

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OMG. Agreed. ohmy.gif

wtf...isn't meant to happen. huh.gif smile.gif

QUOTE(Dave @ Mar 3 2006, 10:23 PM)
I dont think there is a need to increase the workforce as i believe there is a lot of unemployment (i guess you mean professionals and stuff but still)

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OMFGMFS. Also agreed. There are not enough jobs for the number of workers in Scotland as it is. There never are in any country. And then by bringing more workers in, you would only drive wages down by forcing them to compete with each other for the few jobs that go around.

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