126 replies to this topic

[Blondie]

We are actually living... in the matrix!

FSM FTW!

[Nathan]

FSM FTW!

say what?

[Blondie]

FSM FTW!

say what?

FSM = Flying Spagetti Monster (<3)
FTW = For The Win.

[andymckenzie]

i think dave etc are being really stupid saying science and religion cant coexist. science is fact, no religious man can argue with it, it has been proven. religious has no such evidence, we cant prove if your good you go to heaven. thats why its called faith"happy are those who have not seen and yet believe". i believe in both.

DR F, your arguement is so flawed. if you do 'so much' with your life, sinning along the way and not caring, and then die and its all true and you do go to hell, your fucked for eternity. not just 80 or 90 years but eternity. so surely if your thinking about it 'logically' its 'logical' to 'waste' your time praying etc?

[Blondie]

But who is to decide what 'sinning' is and isn't?

[Johnman]

Theres so many theories and answers. Who knows we may not have even thought up the right answer yet. But im leaning towards the BIG BANG theory.

[coca]

But who is to decide what 'sinning' is and isn't?

The observer?

[Blondie]

But who is to decide what 'sinning' is and isn't?

The observer?

What do you mean by the observer? As in, the deity or whatever? Sorry, please clarify.

[dfx]

i think dave etc are being really stupid saying science and religion cant coexist. science is fact, no religious man can argue with it, it has been proven. religious has no such evidence, we cant prove if your good you go to heaven. thats why its called faith"happy are those who have not seen and yet believe". i believe in both.

Please, let us leave out the ad hominems and attack the argument. I agree completely with you, religion and science perfectly coexist. That is, of course, science based on factual evidence. When the divine words in your religion show the speed of light acurate to one decimal place, and contain a plethora of science revealed at a time when the microscope nor advanced math existed... well that just clinches it for me.

[George]

This is an interesting discussion - we seem to have one like this every few months

Well, I consider myself an atheist - but then again, I'm not completely closed to the idea of a 'creator' so I'm bordering on agnostic.

The theory of evolution, and the big bang, seem perfectly reasonable to me, while the literal interpretation of, for example, the Christian creation story is just ludicrous (there was a bit in Ricky Gervais's 'Animals' show that really sent this up well, where he performed a sketch of god creating the daddy long legs).

I liked the interpretation of David Attenborough, when he was talking about the 'Planet Earth' series on BBC One. He basically said that evolution was scientific fact, and it is well accepted among professional scientists. However, religious belief can live alongside that - the story of evolution is actually more amazing than the 'explanation' that everything was just made from scratch 5000 years ago.

So, I think there is cause for people to have religious belief; it's just not something that I feel I have in me.

What I do object to is organised religion. To me, it just smacks of population control (as a lot of people have suggested already).

If people want to share their religious belief, and invent whimsical ways to worship a creator, that's fine. Just don't try to force it on me

[Blondie]

If people want to share their religious belief, and invent whimsical ways to worship a creator, that's fine. Just don't try to force it on me

<3

[Steve]

Speaking of David Attnborough (and daddy long legs), here's what he has to say about the matter (from Wikipedia).

My response is that when Creationists talk about God creating every individual species as a separate act, they always instance hummingbirds, or orchids, sunflowers and beautiful things. But I tend to think instead of a parasitic worm that is boring through the eye of a boy sitting on the bank of a river in West Africa, [a worm] that's going to make him blind. And [I ask them], 'Are you telling me that the God you believe in, who you also say is an all-merciful God, who cares for each one of us individually, are you saying that God created this worm that can live in no other way than in an innocent child's eyeball? Because that doesn't seem to me to coincide with a God who's full of mercy.

So creationists, why would God do this? (Oh wait, I suppose "He" has some perfectly good reason that mere humans are too intellectually inferior to understand )

[dehny]

Muslim here

and a part of the Quran says 4 some ppl there is a wall in front, a wall behind and a wall on either side of a person and nothin u say can make them believe... some ppl's hearts are just sealed and personally, i think ppl tht dnt believe in God are just weak and cant face puttin trust in wat they cnt c......

bring it on

ooh and another thing.. as for the Science and Religion thing...

how can u learn about the how efficiently the human body works, millions of cells we can barely see all serving such important purposes without believing in God?!?!?! that Just happen by accident? dnt think so!

i've never understood how religious people call millions of years of proven fact an accident

[Steve]

part of the Quran says 4 some ppl there is a wall in front, a wall behind and a wall on either side of a person and nothin u say can make them believe

Yes, and some people have a wall in front, a wall behind, walls either side, a floor under their feet and a roof over their head and nothing you say will ever make them realise how naive they sound.

[dfx]

part of the Quran says 4 some ppl there is a wall in front, a wall behind and a wall on either side of a person and nothin u say can make them believe

Yes, and some people have a wall in front, a wall behind, walls either side, a floor under their feet and a roof over their head and nothing you say will ever make them realise how naive they sound.

She quoted to fuel her point. You quote to ridicule. I see no productivity in that. However I take your point that going all gung ho isn't the way to go about it.

[ad absurdum]

And yet, despite the overwhelming evidence, you still belive that...somehow, a "God" made us. So, some higher being went *poof* and made all of us. I don't think so. You're just blinded by faith, so there's really no point bothering to try and contradict, since it just comes in one ear and out the other.

As for an afterlife, the notion of an afterlife is absurd. The very notion of it was just created by weak-minded people who were too scared of the inevitability of death, so they just make up an "afterlife" to comfort themselves. Personally, I'm not scared of death, and I accept the inevitability that when you're dead, you're dead, simple as that.

And finally, Hell and Heaven was also invented by weak-minded people to gain some control over the masses and make themselves superior to them. It's simply a method of control conjured up by the leaders to make sure people behave themselves. Some people have wised up to it though, like myself.

Righto, that was a bit long-winded, but I wanted to express my view. If you take offense at anything I said, I couldn't give a sh*t because it's my opinion. If you have a problem, I don't care, so don't bother flaming me.

Religion is not an escape from the reality of life and death. People follow religion because they want answers. I may cease to believe in an afterlife when I understand consciousness and other unsolved mysteries relating to philosophy of the mind. Or maybe I will believe in it more. The point is that many religious people do not believe in an afterlife to make death more acceptable, but because life is a mystery and death moreso.

I agree that religion instills moral values that define our poltical systems and life in general, however I do not see how this is a criticism of religion. I'm sure that everyone has wised up to this concept, there are other ways to make people behave and religion is favourable to oppression I would say.

what i never got was if god created the earth in 7 days. and on the 6th he created man.

and it is proven that there were no men about the same time as dinosaurs.

where do the dinosaurs fit in?

Most christians do not take the bible literally. At least from my point of view it is a book about a philosophy, and in my opinion the philosophy is good and I agree with the underlying concepts (not all the techincalities) so I choose to say I agree with the bible.

i think dave etc are being really stupid saying science and religion cant coexist. science is fact, no religious man can argue with it, it has been proven. religious has no such evidence, we cant prove if your good you go to heaven. thats why its called faith"happy are those who have not seen and yet believe". i believe in both.

Science is not necassarily fact, I would call it more of an interperation of the apparent probabilities of our physical world. Due to the unpredictable nature at quantum levels, all we can give is an approximation for larger scale models - it is not necassarily fact.

I have an interesting problem for an R.P. Feynman book that I cannot remember right now. When I find it I will post it and hopefully it will help people see that science is not always "fact", and maybe make people think more about what governs the laws of our universe.

So creationists, why would God do this? (Oh wait, I suppose "He" has some perfectly good reason that mere humans are too intellectually inferior to understand )

I personally think that life can pretty much explain itself from about 10 seconds after it begun. For me the question does not lie in how evolution has dictated that these worms are gauging out childrens eyes, but what separates the living from the dead etc. I don't really believe that God would go about pulling the worms out of every young boys eyes, but then again I also believe that human beings are incredibly arrogant in believing that we can kill animals all we want, but they question God when an animal kills us. I don't see the logic behind this at all.

Nobody read the book I posted

[Dave]

Science is not necassarily fact,

and that is where our opinions differ

[ad absurdum]

Science is not necassarily fact,

and that is where our opinions differ

I knew this was going to be controversial the moment I typed it. I don't mean that it is not necassarily fact, but I just mean to stress the fact that I believe that science is an interpretation. I'm sure most people still disagree.

[paddyb67]

What I do object to is organised religion. To me, it just smacks of population control (as a lot of people have suggested already).

If people want to share their religious belief, and invent whimsical ways to worship a creator, that's fine. Just don't try to force it on me

(Oh wait, I suppose "He" has some perfectly good reason that mere humans are too intellectually inferior to understand )

just been following this thread, and to be honest, i find the comments of some have been f*cking disgraceful and downright bigoted. the comments such as these above from administrators, who i thought were meant to ensure posts were fair, are entirely small-minded and apparently intent on ridiculing people's faith. if this topic was meant to be a discussion it has failed miserably, instead its turned into a mocking of religion by those who have supposed 'authority' on this site. george, nobodys forcing anything on you so dont act so childish as though religions out to get you. steve, your just a fuckin arsehole. you obviously have no grasp of what faith is and you clearly think anyone getting caught up in such a 'sham' is being naive. keep your moronic, bigoted jibes to yourself please.

[Dave]

now now keep the head

There is nothing wrong with what george, steve, myself or anyone who isnt religous has said. However what i find is anyone who does go to church and truelly believes in all this react violently to any questioning of there beliefs. This i cannot understand because surely if you truelly believe than it wont be shaken by us non believers and it must be strong enough for you to ignore opinions of others and not feel you have silence all negative opinions

and watch your language swearing isnt big and it isnt clever