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The Holocaust - HSN forum - Page 2

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The Holocaust


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#21 ice_illusion

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 04:47 PM

QUOTE(ermdeviation @ May 1 2006, 03:19 PM) View Post

QUOTE(ice_illusion @ May 1 2006, 12:55 AM) View Post

Ukraine - 1932 - 7 million (mainly starvation but caused by gov.)


That is a figure based on Robert Conquest's work. This has been totally discredited many times over, and should not be taken as correct. The man's work is complete joke.


In 1949 Naum Jasny, a Russian émigré economist, estimated that 5.5 million people died in the famine. By 1961, realizing he had misunderstood the census data, Jasny had revised his estimate to "hundreds of thousands, perhaps a million" in the whole USSR who "died in the winter of 1932/33." In the light of all responsible research, this figure appears reasonable.


This guy left Russia for political reasons. He was an anti-communist. But he recognises his duty to tell the truth over such matters, not rely on heasrsay and downright lies, like Robert Conquest.

See, we don't get taught about it.

#22 dehny

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 09:11 PM

QUOTE(bred @ May 1 2006, 12:19 PM) View Post

Of course people die, but the murder of Jews and other groups under Hitler was genocide of a systematic nature never seen before, a horrific event that everyone should recognise.


i agree everyone should recognise the event but we have had genocides and pogroms in the past for hundreds of years, but the Holocaust was unique; in its systematic efficency.

so simply because the Nazis made an efficent system of killing, it's victims are to be remembered above the victims of all other genocides and progroms?


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#23 bred

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 09:32 PM

I never said that.
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#24 ermd

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 10:32 PM

QUOTE(bred @ May 1 2006, 05:36 PM) View Post

The famine didn't end after the 1932/33 winter though.


Yes, that is true - though I was responding specifically to the statement "Ukraine - 1932 - 7 million (mainly starvation but caused by gov.)"

Nowhere near these numbers perished - as I quoted from that source, a million people maximum died across the whole USSR in the winter of 1932/1933.

#25 bred

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 11:07 PM

Ice_illusion didn't proclaim that 7 million people died as a result of famine in 1932 alone. At least I doubt he/she intended his/her post to be interpreted in that way - I can't think of any reason why he/she would only be referring to one particular year of the famine! The majority of the people that died were of the Ukraine, although surrounding areas of the USSR were victims to a lesser extent.

A state of famine gripped large areas in 1932, peaked in 1933, and was improving in 1934. 7 million is a plausible figure (albeit at the high end of the plausible range) for the famine death toll over this period.
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