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Bomb hits London!


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#41 Lesley

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Posted 07 July 2005 - 04:07 PM

clyde 2 radio said it was.
user posted image
Cows are magnificent,
Cows I call them "moos",
And sometimes silly folk,
They call my moos "coos".

#42 YIC

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Posted 07 July 2005 - 04:13 PM

interesting

#43 Dave

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Posted 07 July 2005 - 04:31 PM

Dotn even start with this silly oh Bush and Blair killed many more in Iraw or Afganistan

Afganistan is a much better place with democracy and all women now have a chance in live. In Iraq we were totally justfied to invade and stall are totally justified

When you people allow yourselfs to accept democracy and mainstream politics will be the day u stop argueing with me

If i am not here i am somewhere else



#44 YIC

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Posted 07 July 2005 - 04:39 PM

QUOTE(Dave @ Jul 7 2005, 05:31 PM)
Dotn even start with this silly oh Bush and Blair killed many more in Iraw or Afganistan

Afganistan is a much better place with democracy and all women now have a chance in live. In Iraq we were totally justfied to invade and stall are totally justified

When you people allow yourselfs to accept democracy and mainstream politics will be the day u stop argueing with me

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The wars were not justified. There were NO WMD's. They wanted to topple saddam (fine) but the reason they gave was a bunch of baloney. All that 45 minute claim bull**** even caused the death of that Kelly person.

What about oil, then? One of the reasons was for oil I am sure. Maybe not ccompletely, but there was definetly another reason for Shrub / Bliar to go to war.

Dave I hope you realise that war is not always the answer, especially when too many innocent lives have been lost.

#45 YIC

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Posted 07 July 2005 - 04:41 PM

anyway, are you sure people live safely at the moment? Don't think that the wars have left things peaceful. I am not 100% sure about Afghanistan, but in Iraq, so many people are being killed every day with bombs, etc. There is a democracy now, but at too much of a cost

#46 Dave

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Posted 07 July 2005 - 04:54 PM

Its not at too much of a cost

Would the people in old Iron Curtain say democracy that they fought the soviats for was too costly. Would people say that reuniting Germany was too costly.

Infact Germany is a good case and point. Split in half after WW2 and after hyper inflation and amazingly bad economics during Hitlers Reign. The eastern half is then used and abused up to the end of communsim in Russia. Germany is now very strong economically and has a very good and stable democratic system to the extent that the current government feel they are out on the next election after some bad by-elections. Is that not true democracy.

During our lifetime we will see the ascendion on Iraq and other middle eastern countries from the depth to rise and pospere on the world stage an d there people will never good back to strong leadership which meant the mass graves and beatings from there own leaders

If i am not here i am somewhere else



#47 YIC

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Posted 07 July 2005 - 05:06 PM

QUOTE(Dave @ Jul 7 2005, 05:54 PM)
Its not at too much of a cost

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try saying that to the Iraqi and Afghanistani families who lost loved ones due to bombs being thrown randomly in an area where militants could have been. And then after the invasion, then having to live in fear as they see fighting going on every day. It is easy to say as we sit in a rich country, but some people in the world have to live knowing that they can't live life without knowing that they might get killed in the next minute.

Whether or not Iraq / Afghanistan begin to thrive in 200 years is not the point; the point is that so many lives have been lost in a war that isn't even just.

#48 YIC

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Posted 07 July 2005 - 05:11 PM

QUOTE(Dave @ Jul 7 2005, 05:54 PM)
Its not at too much of a cost

Infact Germany is a good case and point. Split in half after WW2 and after hyper inflation and amazingly bad economics during Hitlers Reign. The eastern half is then used and abused up to the end of communsim in Russia.  Germany is now very strong economically and has a very good and stable democratic system to the extent that the current government feel they are out on the next election after some bad by-elections. Is that not true democracy.

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I don't think you can compare East Germany to Iraq. Iraq is a relatively poor country

#49 Dave

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Posted 07 July 2005 - 05:14 PM

try saying to the families of girls and women gang repaed by the Taliban and there men folk murdered. To the Iraqi families who have only know found lived ones in mass graves. That they were better off under a dictatorship.

Who knows what mental damage has been done to the children who were bused into there town squared regularly to see the local prostitudes beheaded live in front of them. These young boys are the people who are hardened to death and will so easily pick up a weapon and have no feeling towards death either of others or themselves.

How is it right to allow it to continue, especially with the current arguements of not allowing a child to die needlessly every 3 seconds

If i am not here i am somewhere else



#50 ermd

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Posted 07 July 2005 - 05:15 PM

It's a good point. Dave, when a foreign army kills nearly 200,000 civilians in a war which has no justification, then I fail to see your line of argument.

"Regime change" may seem like a nice idea, but when it is carried out with ulterior motives governed by corporate greed, then it will never bring democracy or freedom. Freedom and equality are interlinked, and that is something Iraqis will not experience whilst their government plays lapdog to the US senate and the US contractors.

Iraqi people are much, much worse off than they were under Saddam's reign, and that is a fact. You cannot simply judge a country on its ability to hold elections when its people are suffering so badly.

Then the financial cost. To spend $300 billion on a war that kills that many people, and then only agree to increase aid by $25 billion to countries that need it more, is a disgrace.

#51 Dave

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Posted 07 July 2005 - 05:22 PM

I am looking to see where this corporate greed comes in yet i cannot find it. It cannot be in oil because as is none coming out of Iraq. It cannot be in rebuilding because its not solely US and GB companies

It most certainly is not a fact these countries are worse off it just isnt

You wanna know something else any killing and bombing going on in Iraq is not because of US forces or because of the Iraqi people. Its because of alien extreamist nutters who are the true greedy ones and the true crinimals because they want to manipulate Iraq to there way of thinking and so impose themselves on the country to give themselves infinite power

That is the saddest thing of all

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#52 YIC

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Posted 07 July 2005 - 05:30 PM

QUOTE(Dave @ Jul 7 2005, 06:22 PM)
It cannot be in oil because as is none coming out of Iraq. It most certainly is not a fact these countries are worse off it just isnt

View Post



I don't know what you mean. From http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/iraq.html : (June 2005)

"Iraq is estimated to hold 115 billion barrels of proven oil reserves, and possibly much more undiscovered oil in unexplored areas of the country. Iraq also is estimated to contain at least 110 trillion cubic feet of natural gas. The country is a focal point for regional and oil security issues."





#53 YIC

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Posted 07 July 2005 - 05:30 PM

QUOTE(ermdeviation @ Jul 7 2005, 06:15 PM)
It's a good point. Dave, when a foreign army kills nearly 200,000 civilians in a war which has no justification, then I fail to see your line of argument.

"Regime change" may seem like a nice idea, but when it is carried out with ulterior motives governed by corporate greed, then it will never bring democracy or freedom. Freedom and equality are interlinked, and that is something Iraqis will not experience whilst their government plays lapdog to the US senate and the US contractors.

Iraqi people are much, much worse off than they were under Saddam's reign, and that is a fact. You cannot simply judge a country on its ability to hold elections when its people are suffering so badly.

Then the financial cost. To spend $300 billion on a war that kills that many people, and then only agree to increase aid by $25 billion to countries that need it more, is a disgrace.

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I couldn't agree more smile.gif

#54 YIC

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Posted 07 July 2005 - 05:35 PM

QUOTE(Dave @ Jul 7 2005, 06:14 PM)
try saying to the families of girls and women gang repaed by the Taliban and there men folk murdered. To the Iraqi families who have only know found lived ones in mass graves. That they were better off under a dictatorship.

Who knows what mental damage has been done to the children who were bused into there town squared regularly to see the local prostitudes beheaded live in front of them. These young boys are the people who are hardened to death and will so easily pick up a weapon and have no feeling towards death either of others or themselves.

How is it right to allow it to continue, especially with the current arguements of not allowing a child to die needlessly every 3 seconds

View Post



I am not saying that toppling the Taliban and Saddam was a bad thing. But the way in which Bush and Blair handled the situation was disgraceful. Why did so many innocent people die? I am sure there could have been less needless deaths (as well as abuse, which the US / UK army are as guilty of) Why did Blair / Bush lie about the war - where were the WMD's?

#55 Dave

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Posted 07 July 2005 - 05:38 PM

YIC i think you should read all of that website. Actually ermdev shoudl as well

You will see that Iraq had $250 billion worth of debt with is onyl $50 billion less than the WHOLe of Africa. It also shows kirkuk is damaged almost beyond repair due to over production and under investment in the run up to the Iraq war.

It also shows how well the economy is progressing with 30% growth expected by the end of this year.

So things arent as bad as you think eh

If i am not here i am somewhere else



#56 Dave

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Posted 07 July 2005 - 05:38 PM

This thread is about the terrorist attacks in London today so lets keep it at that

If i am not here i am somewhere else



#57 YIC

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Posted 07 July 2005 - 05:44 PM

QUOTE(Dave @ Jul 7 2005, 06:38 PM)
YIC i think you should read all of that website. Actually ermdev shoudl as well

You will see that Iraq had $250 billion worth of debt with is onyl $50 billion less than the WHOLe of Africa. It also shows kirkuk is damaged almost beyond repair due to over production and under investment in the run up to the Iraq war.

It also shows how well the economy is progressing with 30% growth expected by the end of this year.

So things arent as bad as you think eh

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my brain has lost track sad.gif What do you mean?

#58 dfx

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Posted 07 July 2005 - 05:47 PM

I'd just like to make it very clear that the whole point about iraq was to increase the oil supply into the market, and hence increasing supply (which was not possible under Saddams UN Sanctions) would imply lower oil prices - and guess what, the US is heavily dependent PRIMARILY on oil. Don't even try defending the invasion. Sure, it was "liberation" for the iraqi people and democracy and toppling of a dictator. But it was fundamentally illegal. And yes, it matters.

But back on topic. Whats chilling is just yesterday I was all around the area in Edgeware road and all, and was gonna revisit today, however opted against it. Its just so tragic that innocent lives have been killed. What's more ironic is the very Al-Qaida that's pretexting these on the basis of "revenge for the iraq invasion" have been going around bombing and killing innocent lives of iraqis too. Its a dirty confusing workd out there.

#59 linds

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Posted 07 July 2005 - 05:52 PM

I didn't know anything about this till I got in this afternoon.

I was quite scared because my friend Kate lives in London. Thankfully, she took the car to work today.

#60 superstar

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Posted 07 July 2005 - 06:05 PM

Its so shocking!! I was glued to teh telly this morning untill i had to go to work!

It is really tragic for all involved. There is no justification for actions like that! It is clear it was planned because alot o the police were in Gleneagles and not in London!

Its a shame especially after London winning the Olympics the team deserved their welcome home party but it is totally inappropriate now.

Tony Blair did make a very good speech and it was clear he was very shocked this morning. But what he said was soo true and every1 should be behind he on this one.





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