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#581 ermd

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Posted 07 July 2005 - 05:04 PM

QUOTE(itsmereally @ Jul 7 2005, 12:56 PM)
the police are trained, they are the best qualified for their job. The police dont work on "then and there facts", the police have researched and looked at problems in previous situations, they just dont go around smacking people for no reason.

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Well that's odd, because that is what happened yesterday. As I said in the other thread, read some of Gustave Le Bon's work - he is the guy who the police's tactics are mostly derived from.

QUOTE(itsmereally @ Jul 7 2005, 12:56 PM)
The side you take is the people, the protesters, why dont u make it even and look at it from the prospective of the police?? can you imagine having to deal with a bunch of people whos reputation isnt exactly any good (rather horrific).

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Obviously the police's job is difficult, especially when faced with extreme provocation, but I understand the protestors ideology much better than you (holding similar ideological beliefs myself). They fight against what police are there to represent at all, an oppressive capitalist state. I don't suport the actions seen in Stirling, damaging cars and homes will acheive nothing.

QUOTE(itsmereally @ Jul 7 2005, 12:56 PM)
Police dogs were set on to protestors for a reason. The police just dont send dogs for the fun of it to see people being chewed up!

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What reason though? I think it is a poorly though out tactic to release animals into a croud of uptight protestors. You think that would calm them down, having aggressive alsations set into the crowd!!??!

QUOTE(itsmereally @ Jul 7 2005, 12:56 PM)
Like i clearly said before.. police use their powers when they need to and when they have been forced to.. not just because they want to. Sorry about your buddy, maby he got in the way and looked like someone who wanted to do more than just ask where the toilets were.

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I guess to comes down to a different way of thinking then. I don't really think a state-selcted police force should exist at all. I don't think it is acceptable for a state-paid policeman to injure innocent people, no matter what they look like.

#582 Katrina

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Posted 07 July 2005 - 08:34 PM

most of the people in edinburgh yesterday werent even anarchists actually i dont think any were, at the begining of the march a guy told everybody there that buses we leaving to go to gleneagles so they all left, the people left only wanted a peaceful protest, the police were slagging alot of people of and being very arrogant, for example talking about bob geldof as if he was doing all this just so he could get a nice stay in a fancy hotel, calling him an anarchist, they were saying it so people would hear them as if they wanted us to be cheeky to them, anyway then they hemned us in and got really heavy handed. I understand that they wanted to keep away from repeats of what happened on monday but the way they were going on it was as if they wanted it to turn out like monday! and its not fair how they seem to expect everybody to be violent anarchists

#583 AppleCore

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 12:48 PM

ermdeviation

so what do u suggest we have. No police? or police selected by individuals.. (who also might want to be police persons????) The police are going a job, they dont stand for anything, their personal opinions dont account for the job that they are doing. Capitalism dosnt have anything to do with selecting police persons. Packs of dogs were sent in for a reason, people get scared of angry dogs, it makes them cautious.

When the police have a mentality that "crowds" of this type cause "problems" , their reaction is always to take caution. Anarchists or no Anarchists, previous protests about when G8 meetings were held always have the same outcome, people getting hurt and police getting hurt and a big report on mayhem.

Heres another note.. If people wish to protest peacefully and sanely, then why cover up your face, wear padded clothing, and try looking like a vicious bunch of mobs??.. surely, if you want to protest in peace and not get hurt, u dont need to protect your face or your identity???

#584 AppleCore

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 12:53 PM

bob geldof is another nutter.. dont get me wrong, the guy has done a lot, but the type of ideas that spring out of his head are a bit off sanity.
Ebay for example, tickets for Live8 concerts were being sold on that site. Soon after news reports, ebay said that they would remove all the selling of Live8 tickets from their site. Yeah, im totally against the selling of these things on ebay and i think its wrong to sell what is for charity and a cause, but geldof goes and tells the media that, rather than ebay stopping the selling of these tickets, "hackers" should bring down the site??.. maby a bit much.?? seein as this is a place where more than just "charity tickets" are sold.

#585 Ally

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 01:02 PM

QUOTE(itsmereally @ Jul 8 2005, 01:53 PM)
bob geldof is another nutter.. dont get me wrong, the guy has done a lot, but the type of ideas that spring out of his head are a bit off sanity.
Ebay for example, tickets for Live8 concerts were being sold on that site. Soon after news reports, ebay said that they would remove all the selling of Live8 tickets from their site. Yeah, im totally against the selling of these things on ebay and i think its wrong to sell what is for charity and a cause, but geldof goes and tells the media that, rather than ebay stopping the selling of these tickets, "hackers" should bring down the site??.. maby a bit much.?? seein as this is a place where more than just "charity tickets" are sold.

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Actually eBay first said that they wouldn't remove the tickets due to a policy of theirs which is why Geldolf said that.

#586 AppleCore

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 01:03 PM

no.. i understand what u mean by eBay saying no first, but after ebay did finally agree that they would.. geldof goes and says that.. im sure.. i was checking the dates!

#587 Ally

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 01:06 PM

Why would he ask people to hack eBay after they agreed to cooperate with him? blink.gif

#588 Kevin_Kilbane

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 01:32 PM

Reading all this rubbish about the police is a good laugh.

The protestors broke into the farmers fields. The police had to get them out incase they got further into Gleneagles. Solution - start wacking the people that don't move.

As for Edinburgh, that march was not planned. The Police had to use heavy handed tactics to ensure everyone followed the law.

#589 Katrina

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 02:46 PM

even though I stick by my decision that the police had no need to be that heavy handed on wednesday in Edinburgh I just want to say that the way the police handled what happened in london was amazing. It makes you proud when you hear how organised they were and their acts of bravery. It shows that we do actually have a good police force

#590 AppleCore

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 08:20 PM

QUOTE(ally @ Jul 8 2005, 02:06 PM)
Why would he ask people to hack eBay after they agreed to cooperate with him? blink.gif

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dunno.. thats geldof for ya!

#591 AppleCore

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 08:21 PM

QUOTE(Kevin_Kilbane @ Jul 8 2005, 02:32 PM)
Reading all this rubbish about the police is a good laugh.

The protestors broke into the farmers fields.  The police had to get them out incase they got further into Gleneagles.  Solution - start wacking the people that don't move.

As for Edinburgh, that march was not planned.  The Police had to use heavy handed tactics to ensure everyone followed the law.

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exactly!

#592 Katrina

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 08:21 PM

he wouldnt do that though

#593 AppleCore

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 08:41 PM

QUOTE([U)
Bob Geldof calls for hackers to attack eBay[/U], June 16, 2005,  12:01 AM ]
Perhaps more reminiscent of his Boomtown Rats days, Bob Geldof was interviewed by the BBC yesterday and was inciting hackers to hit the eBay website. The move was being made in protest to winners of the Live 8 ticket lottery turning to eBay to sell unwanted tickets - some at highly inflated prices compared to the text message cost to win the ticket in the first place. After initially defending the sales saying they were not illegal, eBay later did a U-Turn by pulling all Live 8 auctions.

Source: Hack in the Box, posted by L33tdawg.


Note as i have highlighted 16 June 2005 (saying "Yesterday" which is 15 June)

QUOTE( EBay news updates @ [B)
14 June, 2005, 07:34PM BST [/B] ]
Dear all,
Today you have made it very clear to us that our previous decision to allow the sale of LIVE 8 tickets on eBay.co.uk was not one that the vast majority of you agreed with. As a result of this clear signal from the Community we have decided to prohibit the resale of LIVE 8 tickets on the site.

Although the resale of tickets is not illegal, we think that this is absolutely the right thing to do. We have listened to the views you expressed on the discussion boards and in the many emails you have sent to us. We shall be working over the next few hours to remove all LIVE 8 ticket listings from the site.

Thanks for taking the time to contact us and make your views heard,

Regards,

Doug McCallum

Source: Ebay after logging into my own account.



point proven or not??

#594 Katrina

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 08:49 PM

ok point proven

#595 ermd

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Posted 09 July 2005 - 12:49 PM

QUOTE(Kevin_Kilbane @ Jul 8 2005, 01:32 PM)
Solution - start wacking the people that don't move.

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Oh yeah, because that is really going to create an atmosphere which won't induce more violence. Why should the police be allowed to assault people who stand in their way. Because that is what it is. Assault. A crime. But of course, at the hands of the state all should be well and good?

QUOTE(Kevin_Kilbane @ Jul 8 2005, 01:32 PM)
As for Edinburgh, that march was not planned.  The Police had to use heavy handed tactics to ensure everyone followed the law.

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And they should be allowed to just ignore international law at the same time? The police overstepped the mark by a long, long way over the past 5 days.

And itsmereally, yes I would rather have a community organised "police" force. Obviously it's not possible whilst we have an overbearing centralised state, though.

Edit: I also wish that people wouldn't stereotype anarchists as violent nutters. There are many non-violent anarchist movements. Ghandi was a non-violent anarcho-syndicalist and look what he acheived.

#596 AppleCore

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Posted 09 July 2005 - 04:30 PM

QUOTE(ermdeviation @ Jul 9 2005, 01:49 PM)
QUOTE(Kevin_Kilbane @ Jul 8 2005, 01:32 PM)
Solution - start wacking the people that don't move.

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Oh yeah, because that is really going to create an atmosphere which won't induce more violence. Why should the police be allowed to assault people who stand in their way. Because that is what it is. Assault. A crime. But of course, at the hands of the state all should be well and good?

QUOTE(Kevin_Kilbane @ Jul 8 2005, 01:32 PM)
As for Edinburgh, that march was not planned.  The Police had to use heavy handed tactics to ensure everyone followed the law.

View Post


And they should be allowed to just ignore international law at the same time? The police overstepped the mark by a long, long way over the past 5 days.

And itsmereally, yes I would rather have a community organised "police" force. Obviously it's not possible whilst we have an overbearing centralised state, though.

Edit: I also wish that people wouldn't stereotype anarchists as violent nutters. There are many non-violent anarchist movements. Ghandi was a non-violent anarcho-syndicalist and look what he acheived.

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all's well and good about an "organised police force".. can ya just not see that, "we need 5000 more police persons".. "the elections will be within the next week, elect your favourite (to be) police officer!!".. what system would u use?? FPTP or PR??? or maby something totally different??

yeah.. i wish people would stop stereotyping a lot of issues.. Catholics are Pedofiles??? Goths are mad.. capitalists care only for the rich.. the list is endless.. but hey.. its how the world runs at the moment.. tough s***, we just have to live with it.

#597 ermd

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Posted 09 July 2005 - 05:03 PM

Well, firstly, within a collectivist society, there would be very little crime anyway (we all know we get utopia after the revolution, right? tongue.gif). But seriously, I would say a police force should be there to serve the needs of the community, and therefore a police force which judges its applicants based on their physical wellbeing and knowledge of basic law is not desireable.

And no, I wouldn't hold elections, because once again, they fall under the influence of teh state. I think a community could pretty much police itself once economic injustice and social inequality had been removed.
QUOTE(itsmereally @ Jul 9 2005, 04:30 PM)
. but hey.. its how the world runs at the moment.. tough s***, we just have to live with it.

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Or, we could change the world. I think I'd prefer that smile.gif. Why don't you help me change the world, itsmereally biggrin.gif? You have half and I'll have half laugh.gif.

#598 Dave

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Posted 09 July 2005 - 05:06 PM

What do you mean by questioning wither the Police can charge at people who stand in there way. OF COURSE THEY CAN!!!!! THEY ARE THE POLICE?!?!?!?! The line had to be held these people cannot be allowed through. Period.

If i am not here i am somewhere else



#599 ermd

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Posted 09 July 2005 - 05:09 PM

And the fence got in the protestors way, so they charged it! tongue.gif

The police, of all groups, should not be considered "above the law".

#600 Dave

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Posted 09 July 2005 - 05:13 PM

They are above the law.

These "protestors" you like so much broke the rules. The organisers decided on a route with the police but on the day they did not follow the rules and went through the field into the ring of steel.

That is an act of rioting and so the riot act comes into play so riot police turn up and make sure the line is held. End of

If i am not here i am somewhere else







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