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The Big Bang - HSN forum

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The Big Bang


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#1 The Wedge Effect

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 01:21 PM

There is one thing that has always confused me about the Big Bang. If there was nothingness before the Big Bang, where can the energy to create this huge explosion come from? Any ideas? Comment here! tongue.gif

#2 Peter

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 01:26 PM

QUOTE(Wedge37 @ May 27 2005, 02:21 PM)
There is one thing that has always confused me about the Big Bang. If there was nothingness before the Big Bang, where can the energy to create this huge explosion come from? Any ideas? Comment here! tongue.gif

View Post


God created the world
P.E.T.E.R

#3 dfx

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 01:33 PM

The big bang is in marvellous agreement with creationism - in Islam anyway. I think the bible also confirms it.. not sure. But anyway, there's alot of technical stuff on the cause of the big bang and all. Makes sense if you're into astrophysics. Google gives a hell of alot of info.For example http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0103456 or an easier to understand one at http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/academy/universe/b_bang.html
I'm sure there must be far more simpler versions though.

I do realize the primary question is what was BEFORE the big bang but nonetheless there had be a Creator for whatever there was (gases/energy).

#4 smb

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 01:50 PM

what is it with the afterlife/evolution/believing in God thing at the moment. huh.gif

three threads at once. laugh.gif

EDIT: perhaps there should be a "To Believe or not to believe. (- That is the question.)" part of the forum

#5 Gavers

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 02:52 PM

QUOTE(Peter @ May 27 2005, 01:26 PM)
QUOTE(Wedge37 @ May 27 2005, 02:21 PM)
There is one thing that has always confused me about the Big Bang. If there was nothingness before the Big Bang, where can the energy to create this huge explosion come from? Any ideas? Comment here! tongue.gif

View Post


God created the world

View Post



We're not talking about one world here, we're talking about the whole universe.

Maybe there was a single, hugely dense point in that nothingness which just decided "Right... Lets make a universe... Time... Matter... Anti-matter... Right, that's everything I need" and exploded with an allmighty pop! (which wouldn't have been heard because there was nothing for the sound to travel through) tongue.gif

It could have been a big, powerful being that made it, but people say that before the big bang there wasn't even time. There was just... nothing. So, by this argument (there was nothing before the big bang, not even time) there couldn't be an all powerful being. (Another reason for me not believeing in god btw)

Auch, who cares? We're here, thats what matters, believe what you want, I don't care! biggrin.gif

#6 dfx

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 02:59 PM

QUOTE(Gavers @ May 27 2005, 03:52 PM)
QUOTE(Peter @ May 27 2005, 01:26 PM)
QUOTE(Wedge37 @ May 27 2005, 02:21 PM)
There is one thing that has always confused me about the Big Bang. If there was nothingness before the Big Bang, where can the energy to create this huge explosion come from? Any ideas? Comment here! tongue.gif

View Post


God created the world

View Post



So, by this argument (there was nothing before the big bang, not even time) there couldn't be an all powerful being. (Another reason for me not believeing in god btw)

View Post



That's a fundamental flaw m8. God is beyond space and time, He is not matter so He is not restricted within these dimensions. He created them, so obviously He had to be beyond them in the first place. biggrin.gif

#7 KhalidBoussouara

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 03:19 PM

Creation did not begin with the big bang and there were things before it. Our universe was caused by events outwith the 4 dimensions (space and time). It's something to do with string theory. There is also stuff about 11 dimensions. Theres a great book by Stephen Hawking on all this called "The Universe in a Nutshell".

However god is outwith all these dimensions just as dfx says.
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#8 Gavers

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 03:57 PM

QUOTE(dfx @ May 27 2005, 02:59 PM)
QUOTE(Gavers @ May 27 2005, 03:52 PM)
QUOTE(Peter @ May 27 2005, 01:26 PM)
QUOTE(Wedge37 @ May 27 2005, 02:21 PM)
There is one thing that has always confused me about the Big Bang. If there was nothingness before the Big Bang, where can the energy to create this huge explosion come from? Any ideas? Comment here! tongue.gif

View Post


God created the world

View Post



So, by this argument (there was nothing before the big bang, not even time) there couldn't be an all powerful being. (Another reason for me not believeing in god btw)

View Post



That's a fundamental flaw m8. God is beyond space and time, He is not matter so He is not restricted within these dimensions. He created them, so obviously He had to be beyond them in the first place. biggrin.gif

View Post



If God is beyond all these dimensions then how did he manage to create everything in these dimensions? In that case he'd have to be a trans-dimensional thing. If he is, then where is he in this dimension? He must of left his mark in here somewhere, otherwise some other being from his dimensoin could come along and claim it as their own.

If he is beyond these dimensions, then how did he make them in the fist place? How did he get in here? What did he make them out of? What other dimensions are there except lenght, breadth, depth and time?

To me this seems to be getting to be more like science fiction... tongue.gif

Actually, I'm going to have to stop argueing - it feels like I'm trying to brainwash you, and thats something I really don't want to do.

I accept other peoples beliefs, but want answers to my questions! tongue.gif

#9 dfx

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 04:40 PM

Nah its oryt, I totally appreciate your point of view. Thing is though, we're just humans. And no matter how far our sci-tech capability may expand and our head may continue to grow higher, there's just some questions that we will never ever be able to answer - like the ones you posed. Because God is beyond time and space, we will never be able to comprehend Him or any of His actions. That's why religion is in essence a metaphysical field that lies in having strong faith, love and beliefs. But that doesn't automatically imply blind faith. Religion is an entire way of life that makes sense. It's divine guidance. Ok I'll shut up now I'm startin to sound like a preacher laugh.gif

p.s the other book by Stephen King is also "A history of time" which is highly acclaimed.

#10 smb

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 04:41 PM

QUOTE(Gavers @ May 27 2005, 04:57 PM)
If God is beyond all these dimensions then how did he manage to create everything in these dimensions? In that case he'd have to be a trans-dimensional thing. If he is, then where is he in this dimension? He must of left his mark in here somewhere, otherwise some other being from his dimensoin could come along and claim it as their own.

If he is beyond these dimensions, then how did he make them in the fist place? How did he get in here? What did he make them out of? What other dimensions are there except lenght, breadth, depth and time?

To me this seems to be getting to be more like science fiction... tongue.gif

Actually, I'm going to have to stop argueing - it feels like I'm trying to brainwash you, and thats something I really don't want to do.

I accept other peoples beliefs, but want answers to my questions! tongue.gif

View Post




Well, I can't be doing with science fiction a lot of the time! wink.gif

It is my belief that God can do anything - he is omnipotent (....like someone said in the other, other thread) so he could think up and do anything he wanted to, as quickly and as he wanted to!

I am very aware that there is a LOT of stuff that doesn't make sense. That doesn't mean that its all rubbish though, in my opinion. I want answers to my questions too! tongue.gif But I accept that i'm gonna just have to wait until I'm dead. I don't want to waste my entire life trying to find the logic behind everything cos, to be honest, there is no point. I probably wouldn't get the answers i wanted anyway. Although I can understand why folk want to try and find the answers, just "believing" something is enough for me.

I understand this is probably not the answer to your question. But i doubt you'll get your answer anyway. smile.gif

#11 Gavers

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 09:09 PM

Lol, okay, good shtuff.

But I just realised - we moved WAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY off topic there, and it was probably my fault. So, how did the big bang come around?

(p.s. - sorry for bumpin this topic up again)

#12 John

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 09:21 PM

I reckon it was due to Goerge "Dubya" Bush pressed the big red button, or was that Hiroshoma and Nagasaki?

#13 ermd

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 03:04 PM

QUOTE(Gavers @ May 27 2005, 09:09 PM)
Lol, okay, good shtuff.

But I just realised - we moved WAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY off topic there, and it was probably my fault. So, how did the big bang come around?

(p.s. - sorry for bumpin this topic up again)

View Post



The Big Bang occurred when all matter and energy was concentrated into a singularity ie. one single point in the universe, and when the universe was only this single point. This is unsustainable and therefore there was a huge expelling of matter at speeds close to that of light.

It is a point argued between different camps of physicists what exactly happened. Many say that using the law of E=mc power2.gif it is possible to show that energy can form matter under the correct conditions, and likewise that matter can turn into pure energy. This idea was strengthened by the discovery that light exists as waves and photons - and that there are different sub-atomic particle types which can accelerate to beyond the speed of light and do have a mass. At this point the particle physics gets very complex and becomes a whole bunch of equations biggrin.gif, so I tend to stay out of it.

Then there are all the theories about whether the universe will contract, continue expanding, cool to a point where time no longer exists etc.

#14 ermd

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 03:17 PM

QUOTE(dfx @ May 27 2005, 02:59 PM)
That's a fundamental flaw m8. God is beyond space and time, He is not matter so He is not restricted within these dimensions. He created them, so obviously He had to be beyond them in the first place. biggrin.gif

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Lol, odd. That's why religion always seem sublimely ridiculous to me laugh.gif !

#15 Gavers

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 03:24 PM

One problem wth that Erm - we can't measure anything going faster than the speed of light yet (as far as I know).

Anyone read any of Dan Brown's books - namely Angels and Demons?

#16 ermd

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 03:36 PM

We can and have at CERN on the Swiss border. They have created conditions there which emulate the universe a fraction of a second post-big bang.

From what I can gather, you have to do a lot of research into particle physics to understand anything of it. Most particle physicists agree that forces are now even governed by different types of particle, including gravity (by gravitons, of all things biggrin.gif). The main problem they face is unifying that theory with relativity and general relativity. I believe that through the research done at CERN however, there has been great progress made towards unifying the theories.

Now string theory poses a whole new set of questions tongue.gif. It is based on the idea that there are huge "strings" of extremely dense matter which run throughout the universe. The main backers of this theory are those who want an easy answer as to why we can only find about 7% of the matter in the universe with our telescopes.

#17 Gavers

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 04:06 PM

I should pay more attention... I'm hopefully gona be doing physics at Uni huh.gif

So, later on in life, when you hear of some biiiiiig scientific breakthrough happening, remember - you've spoken with the person responsible for the bits that went wrong tongue.gif

#18 dfx

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 04:40 PM

laugh.gif apparently the search is on for the new Einstein who will unify theories and all that. Any takers? tongue.gif

#19 Gavers

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 05:08 PM

E = mc^2 = mgh = 1/2mv^2 = ....

There, linked. That good enough for ya? tongue.gif

#20 ermd

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Posted 31 May 2005 - 11:32 AM

Wow. Just read some quality stuff about determinism and randomness. If anyone has a chance they should read Stephen Wolfram's 'A New Kind of Science'. A lotta good stuff in there and it tackles the idea of "free will" from a whole new way of thinking.

Basically it says (at least by my interpretation) that you have no free will due to the function of the universe as a system. However that does not mean that anyone can know or predict what will happen, because there is no way to emulate the system any faster than it is running at. It's like philosophy with equations biggrin.gif. Lots of pretty pictures in it to look at too. But 1200 pages or so.





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