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Is this derivation required? - HSN forum

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Is this derivation required?


14 replies to this topic

#1 werlop

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Posted 08 May 2005 - 01:42 PM

In unit 3 are we required to be able to derive the equations for constructive and destructive interference in a thin film?

All my notes say that we should be able to do it, but the arrangements documents just say "state the expressions for maxima and minima in the fringes formed by reflection and transmission of normally incident monochromatic light or microwaves in a thin film".

I think it's a really annoying derivation and I really don't want to learn it if I don't have to.
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#2 Discogirl17

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Posted 08 May 2005 - 01:48 PM

Maybe your required to know how to do it but not actually to do it in the exam.
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#3 Dave

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Posted 08 May 2005 - 03:05 PM

seeing as we all have the same notes all i can say is that you already.

I think if you should assume it is required however i think the chances of it beinf in the paper is quite slim but you never know

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#4 Jas0n

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Posted 13 May 2005 - 04:09 PM

My teacher asked us to study this derivation in particular. I have seen this come up in a past apaper before, not sure if the qestion was to derive though.
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#5 werlop

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Posted 13 May 2005 - 05:17 PM

Apparently a derivation used to be required, but the arrangements have been changed, you only need to state the equations now.

Which paper have you seen it in Jas0n, it's not in 2001 - 2004 or the spec paper, and there are not any other AH papers. :S
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#6 Dave

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Posted 13 May 2005 - 05:21 PM

i have from 1998 to 2004 papers

although i have only so far done from 2000-2004

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#7 werlop

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Posted 13 May 2005 - 09:39 PM

Dave, are they CSYS papers you have cz AH only came in in 2001.

If you have CSYS any chance you can scan em and email me?
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If you can keep your head when all about you
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If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you
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If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
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Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
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#8 Dave

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Posted 13 May 2005 - 09:56 PM

no idea what these are but i can email you them if youwant

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#9 werlop

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Posted 13 May 2005 - 10:42 PM

cool, I'll pm you.
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But make allowance for their doubting too,
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
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Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
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#10 clueless

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Posted 14 May 2005 - 08:05 PM

is there any way u cud email me a copy 2? i don't think the course has changed loads so the extra questions from the CSYS papers would be good to do.

by the way my teacher told us the derivation was required. He told us all to learn it as best we could!

#11 Dave

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Posted 14 May 2005 - 08:27 PM

just as well you posted here i actually forgot to scan them

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#12 werlop

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Posted 14 May 2005 - 10:41 PM

QUOTE(clueless @ May 14 2005, 09:05 PM)
by the way my teacher told us the derivation was required. He told us all to learn it as best we could!

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I double checked the arrangements documents, I'm pretty sure we don't need to now:


QUOTE
State the expressions for maxima and minima in the fringes formed by reflection and transmission of normally incident monochromatic light or microwaves in a ‘thin film’.


In the suggested activities section it says: Discuss derivation of the expressions for fringes formed in a ‘thin film’.

This indicates that the derivation is not actually examinable as it is not a learning outcome.

An example of an equation which must be derived is:

QUOTE
Derive the expression for the distance between the fringes which are formed by reflection of light at normal incidence from a ‘thin wedge’.

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If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you
But make allowance for their doubting too,
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And--which is more--you'll be a Man, my son!

#13 werlop

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Posted 15 May 2005 - 08:50 AM

I'm now certain it's not required:


From the 1999 arrangements document:

QUOTE
Derive the expressions for maxima and minima in the fringes, formed
by reflection and transmission of monochromatic light or microwaves
in a ‘thin film’.


From the 2002 and 2004 arrangements documents:

QUOTE
State the expressions for maxima and minima in the fringes formed by reflection and transmission of normally incident monochromatic light or microwaves in a ‘thin film’.


So bascially it was needed a couple of years ago, but this derivation has now been taken out the course and no teachers seem to have realised yet. tongue.gif
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If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you
But make allowance for their doubting too,
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And--which is more--you'll be a Man, my son!

#14 Holmes

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Posted 15 May 2005 - 01:48 PM

Thats the 2nt = m x wavelength formula eh?

Thankfully its not required then, its by far the most ridiculous derivation in the entire course. An entire A4 page, i couldnt see anybody being able to do it in an exam.

#15 werlop

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Posted 15 May 2005 - 09:39 PM

It really is, it's not the maths that's hard, it's the fact that you have to draw out the diagram and state all the conditions and everything, it's too fidely!

I can do all the other derivations though biggrin.gif

I really don't think any teachers have noticed that this isn't needed any more.
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If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you
But make allowance for their doubting too,
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And--which is more--you'll be a Man, my son!





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