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Cinema - Vera Drake - HSN forum

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Cinema - Vera Drake


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#1 Paul!"Ł$%^&*1122

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 11:35 AM

i went to the cinema yesterday to see Vera Drake. i had heard nothing about the film but my friend begged me to go. noW im so glad i went it was a tremendous film but frightening. it was about 1950s abortion and i was so hurt by it. it followed a hardworking woman who always done her best by her family but at the same time unknown to them she "helped young girls". the way she done it was scary and so matter of a fact. she grated soap into a pale added disenfectant and hot water then siringed it into the woman and this encouraged the baby to fall out with her period. she was eventually caught and recieved 30 months in prison. i am totally against abortion and think its completely wrong whatever the circumstances. whats your opinion???
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#2 bred

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 01:37 PM

I think the decision should lie in the hands of the mother.
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#3 Floorball Maniac

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 01:51 PM

Every situation is different. It’s not something you could say is good or bad. People shouldn’t be one way about it because it’s not as simple as that. The mother should have the right to the final decision. It wouldn’t be an easy decision to expect mother to make but many parts of life aren’t easy. The decision should relate to the situation.

I’m no expert and don’t really know much about it but that’s my opinion.

#4 Dave

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 03:24 PM

there was another thread like this

i think the conclusion of that thread was the one expressed by bred

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#5 Shaun

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 05:05 PM

What I don't understand is why she was imprisoned. In an ideal world, shouldn't Doctors also be imprisoned for performing abortions?

There is no difference. Well, obviously one is qualified and the other isn't, but the principal is the same: They are both termanating lives.

#6 linds

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 06:34 PM

I don't want to think about abortion in any great detail, because I know if I got pregnant now (unlikely), I would get rid of it.

So I'll just cover my ears. Or my eyes.

#7 bred

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 06:43 PM

The life of a foetus Shaun, yes. But I think the suffering of the mother at not being able to make the choice far outweighs that of a foetus that isn't self aware and doesn't have any memories. Unless a foetus is aborted in the very late stages of a pregnancy it can not survive by itself anyway - so how could you consider that to be taking away a life? Do you feel guilty when you masturbate and you kill thousands of sperm? They all have the potential to create the next Albert Einstein or Ian Thorpe if you were to hand them over to a sperm bank.
I am of the opinion that a foetus only becomes a human being at birth. If the mother's desire is that the foetus should be aborted, then it is probably for the best. Do you not worry about the life of the baby (if the foetus did develop into a healthy baby) after birth? That the mother may not be able to look after it? That the mother may want a baby who has a father other than the man who raped her? Just because it is technically possible to hook up a new born baby to advanced machinery, a baby with severe complications, which will (in some cases) have a severe disability for the rest of his or her life, doesn't make it a necessary course of action, does it?
Making abortion illegal, like it is in Ireland, only results in more "backstreet abortions" where there is more chance of causing severe injury or even death to the mother.
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#8 Shaun

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 07:10 PM

Hey Bred,

I agree with your point and wasn't disputing it. However I think it's unfair that this women was jailed for doing something doctors do every day - you can't have one set of rules for one group of people and different rules for another group of people.

I have read over my post and I see where your coming from, you've misinterptred what I've wrote tongue.gif

Ex.

QUOTE
What I don't understand is why she was imprisoned. In an ideal world, shouldn't Doctors also be imprisoned for performing abortions?


I wasn't saying there that I think Doctors should be imprisoned for performing abortions, I am saying that if a woman who performed abortions shouldn't be treated differently from Doctors who perform them. And since the woman was arrested for performing abortions, then so should the Doctors - it's only fair.

Oh God I don't know if I'm making sense!

For example. Say you were a teacher and you stole a loaf of bread, and you were arrested and put in jail. Then say a poor person with no money stole a loaf of bread and wasn't arrested, because he was poor. This is unfair. The law has to be the same for everyone and there cannot be exclusions or exemptions from it. Now, relating this to my point, the woman who was arrested for performing 'backstreet' abortions I think, ethically should not have been arrested because Doctors do the exact same thing in hospitals - if they are allowed to do it, then so should that lady.

Does this make sense?

#9 bred

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 07:16 PM

Yep, I agree with everything you said there. However, in an perfect world there wouldn't be poor people needing to steal bread but unfortunately this isn't a perfect world and I think there are too many people in prison for minor charges of theft (a bit off topic but I thought I'd mention this just since it was brought up).
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#10 ermd

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 07:22 PM

QUOTE(bred2k4 @ Mar 29 2005, 07:16 PM)
Yep, I agree with everything you said there. However, in an perfect world there wouldn't be poor people needing to steal bread but unfortunately this isn't a perfect world and I think there are too many people in prison for minor charges of theft (a bit off topic but I thought I'd mention this just since it was brought up).

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Similarly, there are way too many people in prison for non-violent drug-related offences. I read that in some areas up to 25% of the prison population can be non-violent drug offenders. Is it just me or does that kind of imprisonment seem pointless? They need help, not to be locked up.

#11 bred

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 07:24 PM

Agreed.
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#12 dondon

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 03:07 PM

QUOTE(Shaun @ Mar 29 2005, 07:10 PM)
Hey Bred,

I  agree with your point and wasn't disputing it.  However I think it's unfair that this women was jailed for doing something doctors do every day - you can't have one set of rules for one group of people and different rules for another group of people.

I have read over my post and I see where your coming from, you've misinterptred what I've wrote tongue.gif

Ex.

QUOTE
What I don't understand is why she was imprisoned. In an ideal world, shouldn't Doctors also be imprisoned for performing abortions?


I wasn't saying there that I think Doctors should be imprisoned for performing abortions, I am saying that if a woman who performed abortions shouldn't be treated differently from Doctors who perform them. And since the woman was arrested for performing abortions, then so should the Doctors - it's only fair.

Oh God I don't know if I'm making sense!

For example. Say you were a teacher and you stole a loaf of bread, and you were arrested and put in jail. Then say a poor person with no money stole a loaf of bread and wasn't arrested, because he was poor. This is unfair. The law has to be the same for everyone and there cannot be exclusions or exemptions from it. Now, relating this to my point, the woman who was arrested for performing 'backstreet' abortions I think, ethically should not have been arrested because Doctors do the exact same thing in hospitals - if they are allowed to do it, then so should that lady.

Does this make sense?

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in the time when the film was set abortion was illegal so that is why she was put in prison

#13 Justboy

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 03:14 PM

I think it should be up to the mother.

#14 dondon

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 03:16 PM

QUOTE(Justboy @ Jun 3 2005, 03:14 PM)
I think it should be up to the mother.

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you say that now but what if it was your baby do you not feel that you should have some say in it??

#15 John

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 06:52 PM

I feel that Abortion should be used as a last resort, it should only be used if giving birth to the child is going to in danger the mother. I also feel that Abortion should only be used if the child runs a very high risk of having a low quality of life due to a very likely disability.

I feel that even in the case of rapes the child should be allowed to live, if the mother doesn't want the child, the child should be given up for adoption. This would allow the child to live their life, while their biological mother is living her own life and hopefully their rapist father is serving a jail sentence, and the remainder of their life will be a living hell for them.

With teenage pregnancies, i still feel their should be no abortion, unless the mother is at risk of death or severe disability, and the same with the child. If teenagers are stupid enough to get pregnant then they should be able to live with the responsibility, if they don't want the child after it's birth, then there are couples out there that can't conceive, so put the child up for adoption.

As someone said the decision should be up to the mothers, the decision to go ahead with birth if their life is at risk should be up to the mother's, if they want the child's birth to go ahead then they should allow it, but only at the mothers wishes.

And i agree that abortion is murder, and if someone who murders, let's say a 40 year-old Jane Doe, gets a life sentence for this crime, then so should someone who performs an abortion on a perfectly healthy foetus, which giving birth too will not in danger the mother should also be given a life sentence, as they have taken away a life.

Over and out!

#16 AppleCore

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 07:47 PM

QUOTE(dondon @ Jun 3 2005, 04:16 PM)
QUOTE(Justboy @ Jun 3 2005, 03:14 PM)
I think it should be up to the mother.

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you say that now but what if it was your baby do you not feel that you should have some say in it??

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be safe, you should know what u are getting into by the time u get into such situations (surprised to say, many teens dont!). The father should have a say too, but its not him who's caryin the baby.

#17 dondon

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 09:54 PM

QUOTE(itsmereally @ Jun 3 2005, 07:47 PM)
QUOTE(dondon @ Jun 3 2005, 04:16 PM)
QUOTE(Justboy @ Jun 3 2005, 03:14 PM)
I think it should be up to the mother.

View Post




you say that now but what if it was your baby do you not feel that you should have some say in it??

View Post



be safe, you should know what u are getting into by the time u get into such situations (surprised to say, many teens dont!). The father should have a say too, but its not him who's caryin the baby.

View Post




but its still his child and if that child was older he would legally have rights to make decisions about major things so why not before its born

i know it really always comes down to whether you believe that life begins at fertilisation or birth

but there are so many people-as mentioned above- who cannot have children but would love them so why not just give the baby up for adoption if you dont want her/him someone else will.


#18 AppleCore

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 11:08 PM

QUOTE(dondon @ Jun 3 2005, 10:54 PM)
QUOTE(itsmereally @ Jun 3 2005, 07:47 PM)
QUOTE(dondon @ Jun 3 2005, 04:16 PM)
QUOTE(Justboy @ Jun 3 2005, 03:14 PM)
I think it should be up to the mother.

View Post




you say that now but what if it was your baby do you not feel that you should have some say in it??

View Post



be safe, you should know what u are getting into by the time u get into such situations (surprised to say, many teens dont!). The father should have a say too, but its not him who's caryin the baby.

View Post




but its still his child and if that child was older he would legally have rights to make decisions about major things so why not before its born

i know it really always comes down to whether you believe that life begins at fertilisation or birth

but there are so many people-as mentioned above- who cannot have children but would love them so why not just give the baby up for adoption if you dont want her/him someone else will.

View Post



the loss of a child is painful enough for any couple, be it unplanned or planned. its the loss that effects everyone who is involved. But can u imaging having to live with u knowin that ur child is alive but not urs??, my sister is adopted and i really never had the guts to ask her what she thinks.
And i hate how people go on about "the fetus"!.. for crying out loud!.. when someone's pregnant, the doctor says, "and hows the baby doing", not bloody "and hows the fetus gestating".



#19 dondon

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 11:11 PM

i think if u felt like that you really should have kept it
and with your sister do u think shed rather be dead or adopted??-i know its harsh
sad.gif smile.gif


i dont like the inconsistency if they want it ita a baby if they dont its a foetus?!?




#20 AppleCore

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 11:12 PM

QUOTE(dondon @ Jun 4 2005, 12:11 AM)
i think if u felt like that you really should have kept it
and with your sister do u think shed rather be dead or adopted??-i know its harsh
sad.gif  smile.gif


i dont like the inconsistency if they want it ita a baby if they dont its a foetus?!?

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its kl! im glad u asked about my sis!, lol. im not sure myself, i dont have the guts to ask her!!. i really dont!!!

and on ur second bit.. jese i do agree!!





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