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Socialism etc. - HSN forum - Page 5

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Socialism etc.


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#81 djh1878

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 03:05 PM

QUOTE(ermdeviation @ May 12 2005, 03:57 PM)
This just symbolises the left's problem here in the UK - sooooo splintered. The leftist vote is broken between many small, one-seat-contesting parties. I reckon if we could get an organised leftist party, our parliamentary politics would be more interesting. Proportional representation would help too. Give us a fair representation of our votes dammit!

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See the link, an organised, acceptable leftist party in the making! smile.gif
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#82 Dave

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 04:30 PM

interesting you say you need PR to get any influence

If your cause was soo popular then you wouldnt need PR would you i mean do labour or the tory party (when they were in power for over a decade) need it

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#83 cork screw

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 04:33 PM

QUOTE(Dave @ May 12 2005, 05:30 PM)
interesting you say you need PR to get any influence

If your cause was soo popular then you wouldnt need PR would you i mean do labour or the tory party (when they were in power for over a decade) need it

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laugh.gif rolleyes.gif

It's kinda weird how most people connect socialism with communism, though the socialist totally disagree. smile.gif

#84 Dave

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 04:39 PM

No the socialism Mr Dev speaks of its extreame and is communism

Besides not many people would say labour is socialist....right of centre is much more accurate

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#85 cork screw

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 04:42 PM

splitting hairs. People are prone to become obsessive, scaling out of proportion.

#86 ermd

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 05:03 PM

QUOTE(Dave @ May 12 2005, 04:39 PM)
Besides not many people would say labour is socialist....right of centre is much more accurate

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New Labour is further right than the pre-Thatcher Tories! Right of centre pfffft. Bit of an understatement Dave. They have a very neo-liberal economic policy, very close to John Major's continuation of Thatcherism.

And yes, I would say that at present, PR is the best method of gaining influence. But that is because it gives parties a fairer representation of the vote. Look at the recent general election. If we go by percentage of vote, Labour's majority would only be 19 seats over the Tories. That would be a fairer representation of the people's views, no?

#87 cork screw

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 05:05 PM

What would you do IF scocialism collasped if they do come into power?

#88 Dave

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 05:46 PM

No New labour isnt and never has been righter than ANY Tory government ever period...end of

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#89 ermd

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 05:49 PM

Well, it depends on whether they were voted in under our present system, or gained power after a revolution.

I'll deal with the latter first. If there was a socialist revolution, then it is inevitable that there are going to then be social reactionaries who will try to fight back and maintain the present order of society. This happened after the Russian revolution which took place during WW1. The Whites - a bizarre coalition including men from opposing sides in WW1 - fought against the Bolshevik socialists but inevitably lost due to the popular support for the revolution. So I would say if a revolution was truly in the interests of the majority, it would not collapse.

Right, now if a socialist government was formed through the present system. Well, the first question you have to ask is: would the bourgeoisie capitalist parties even recognise the right of the majority to elect a socialist parliament? I think probably not. Would they see violent, repressive measures as acceptable to maintain their grasp on power? I think so. It would then come down to whether people were willing to fight for their democratic rights or not.

#90 ermd

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 05:51 PM

QUOTE(Dave @ May 12 2005, 05:46 PM)
No New labour isnt and never has been righter than ANY Tory government ever period...end of

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Arrogance and ignorance doesn't pay in arguments. Look at the Tory party in 1972 compared to New Labour:

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#91 cork screw

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 08:40 PM

Where did you get the image from?

You didn't by any chance make it yourself? Or from a biased source?

#92 bred

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 08:41 PM

He got it from politicalcompass.org
I do wonder how they "calculated" the respective positions though.
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#93 Dave

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 08:43 PM

i would think he has somehow

ITs got labour and conservatives quite high up the fascist-o-meter

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#94 cork screw

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 08:45 PM

So a socialist party wouldn't elect a leader, would they if equality is a bases of socialism?

#95 ermd

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 08:49 PM

politicalcompass.org is an unbiased, non affiliated organisation. They are quite high on the fascist axis because because they exert a relativley strong degree of social authoritarianism.

From politicalcompass.org:

"The idea was developed by a political journalist with a university counselling background, assisted by a professor of social history. They're indebted to people like Wilhelm Reich and Theodor Adorno for their ground-breaking work in this field. We believe that, in an age of diminishing ideology, a new generation in particular will get a better idea of where they stand politically - and the sort of political company they keep."

#96 Dave

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 08:49 PM

the SSP tries to say they done need a leader but they have a vague sort of one just so the media have a figure head for there programmes


RUBBISH, the SSP are made up of a coalition of majorly extreame mini communist partys that are trying and failing to work together for the greater good. I give them untilt he end of the scottish parliament before they explode..again

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#97 ermd

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 08:51 PM

QUOTE(cork screw @ May 12 2005, 08:45 PM)
So a socialist party wouldn't elect a leader, would they if equality is a bases of socialism?

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No. The "leader" should not be paid more than the others, have stronger voting rights than the others etc. I believe they call them the "general secretary" of the party. The head spokesperson, more than leader.

#98 ermd

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 08:52 PM

QUOTE(Dave @ May 12 2005, 08:49 PM)
the SSP tries to say they done need a leader but they have a vague sort of one just so the media have a figure head for there programmes


RUBBISH, the SSP are made up of a coalition of majorly extreame mini communist partys that are trying and failing to work together for the greater good. I give them untilt he end of the scottish parliament before they explode..again

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Could you try to improve your spelling and be more coherent in your posting please Dave?

Why would they explode? They have gradually been gaining support, not losing it.

#99 bred

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 08:53 PM

QUOTE(ermdeviation @ May 12 2005, 09:49 PM)
From politicalcompass.org:

"The idea was developed by a political journalist with a university counselling background, assisted by a professor of social history. They're indebted to people like Wilhelm Reich and Theodor Adorno for their ground-breaking work in this field. We believe that, in an age of diminishing ideology, a new generation in particular will get a better idea of where they stand politically - and the sort of political company they keep."

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Do you know how the co-ordinates of the political parties at certain times were calculated? Was it through their policies relating to the questions that you and I are asked if we take the political compass test on the web site?
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#100 ermd

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 08:55 PM

QUOTE(bred @ May 12 2005, 08:53 PM)
Do you know how the co-ordinates of the political parties at certain times were calculated? Was it through their policies relating to the questions that you and I are asked if we take the political compass test on the web site?

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Yes. It was calculated by their manifestos at the time stated on the diagram.

I believe they have been the subject of much professional praise - you can read it on their site.





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